undertalefandomcom-20200223-history
Talk:Empty House/@comment-35032720-20180419084109/@comment-32182236-20180520132643
@Rafip:Here's a quote from Spore Maniac's initial comment:"But no matter who you kill in Undertale, someone is going to miss them." By player's point of view, they're nothing more than colorful pixels and lines on code. They're not capable of "missing" or any other emotion, as they are nothing more than a bunch of electricity flowing through our computer. And if they meant a human from our world, they need not miss these pixelated non-sentient figments of code, because they have their own versions of said characters. It's clear Spore Maniac didn't mean this point of view-They meant canonically. So, we must use the canonical point of view if we want to test the validity of their hypothesis. "Everything else is just me by mistake wasting my time to argue with your interpretation of the game based on the canon point of view that already turned out to be a plot hole driven and breaking apart because its cause and effect relationship is lacking in logic, which makes any interpretation of it pointless." You never managed to prove that it's plot hole driven OR breaking apart-Every supposed plot hole you brought up, I had a solution to. So please, give me an actual plot hole that I can't fix without creating more plot holes or contradicting what's already been established by the game. (If you want, you can try making a pair of them, if you think either one could be fixed on its own, but not both.) I argue that there are no such holes, and there is a real interpretation of canon that is both consistent and makes sense given what we know of the game world. (Maybe even multiple, but definitely one:Toby's true canon) Besides, as I pointed out, Spore was talking about the canon point of view. Just about nobody cares about a bunch of electrical coding's fake emotions. And, by canon, there is no escaping the consequences of the Genocide Route. There will always be a consequence for your actions. This was the point. "Exactly. We, the Players and no one else. The rest doesn't matter." Which is useless under the canon that the player is Frisk, which I pointed out in the part you said didn't matter. "Ah yes, the Determination. The thing that brings back from dead and allows to reshape the world purely by the one's will and such. Except for no Save\Hit Runs, where the Players are rendering ingame DT superfluous purely by their own Determination from their own Souls by overcoming all obstacles and in the end are being judged for their own actions." In this case, Frisk still has determination, they just aren't using it to SAVE/LOAD. So this is still Frisk. Also, why are you assuming that players in the reality have SOULs as Undertale the game describes them? Toby doesn't know everything about the metaphysics of this world-No one does. "The one and only who is able to receive and properly respond to Flowey's words is and will be the Player. Unless you taking your hands off the keyboard letting Frisk to take care of their businesses by themselves." Once again, the player is Frisk. Us doing it is Frisk doing it-There is no difference between the two by canon. You're arguing that the Player must be separate from Frisk by ASSUMING that the player is separate from Frisk-That's circular reasoning. Start with no assumptions on the matter, and show how a canon where Frisk and the player are the same would create problems with the canon. I already made my argument with the Dirty Hacker Ending paradox-Now it's time for yours. "The only thing that matters here is the fact the day of the week is taken from the system clock of my computer. The rest is just your interpretation." You're the one arguing that Frisk and the player HAVE to be separate-You're claiming an absolute. That there's no canon explanation for them being the same, which would fit Occam's Razor. And whoever's claiming the absolute is the one with the burden of proof. (Also, I even gave evidence from So Sorry's meeting, showing that the canon time is affected as well, which was the basis of my interpretation. Your evidence...? Zero.) "Then how have you made all your responses to me if not by speaking by hands all that time? We, the Players, all are speaking in hands here, we are out of this world and we are those that others should be beware of." Neither of us are truly "speaking". If you are, I can't hear a word you're saying, you're too far away-And it certainly isn't through hands. And these responses are a bunch of posts-Not actually qualified to be "speaking". Not only that, it's "speak in hands", not "speak by hands" or "speak with hands". As if hands was the language.. Wingdings. And thirdly, we (player as separate from Frisk) don't actually make any responses at all within the game, unless you count Mettaton's essay and naming the fallen human-We're merely selecting options through the HUD. Gaster is also out of the world-He was scattered across time and space, and he does not exist according to the current timeline-No one remembers him, except for Sans and Alphys. He's from a previous timeline, one that was retconned. And Frisk need not beware of us-We won't kill them! (Plus, they can't do anything about it. River Person, your warning was useless. =3) River Person has also been wrong before-They've both argued that wild water is good luck, and that it is bad luck. They can't both be right. Now, to the core point, my conclusion, where I tie all of this together:According to canon, Frisk and Player are the same. (What the points above this argued) According to canon, Frisk is not above consequences. So, by law of transitivity, according to canon, you are not above consequences. There will always be consequences for your actions, and you can never go back-What's done is done. And it'll all be your fault. And that is never going to change. Even Resets can't help. This, is my case.